How Zumba Balances Instructor and Consumer Subscriptions with Yael Dornbusch, Zumba’s Chief Subscription Officer

Podcast, Season 7

Zumba is a phenomenon since its founding in 2001. The addictive fitness dance program with a Latin beat has taken the world by storm.

As of 2022, the company claimed 15 million people taking Zumba classes weekly at 200,000 locations in over 180 countries. At its core is the Zumba Instructor Network, a monthly membership program created to give instructors ongoing support and tools for success. It includes an unlimited, never-expiring teaching license, as well as monthly music and choreography marketing tools and access to the community.

Today’s guest, Yael Dornbusch is the Chief Subscription Officer at Zumba, responsible for managing what she calls a prosumer subscription.

In our conversation, she explains why Zumba built their first subscription around instructors rather than students, why they launched a second subscription specifically for students, and the principles they use to balance the needs of these two constituencies.

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Listen to the podcast here

 

How Zumba Balances Instructor and Consumer Subscriptions with Yael Dornbusch, Zumba’s Chief Subscription Officer

Zumba is a phenomenon since its founding in 2001. The addictive fitness dance program with a Latin beat has taken the world by storm. As of 2022, the company claimed 15 million people taking Zumba classes weekly at 200,000 locations in over 180 countries. At its core is the Zumba Instructor Network, a monthly membership program created to give instructors ongoing support and tools for success. It includes an unlimited, never-expiring teaching license, as well as monthly music and choreography marketing tools and access to the community.

Today’s guest, Yael Dornbusch is the Chief Subscription Officer at Zumba, responsible for managing what she calls a prosumer subscription.

In our conversation, she explains why Zumba built their first subscription around instructors rather than students, why they launched a second subscription specifically for students, and the principles they use to balance the needs of these two constituencies.

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Robbie Baxter: Yael! Welcome to the show!

Yael Dornbusch: Thank you for having me, Robbie. I’m so excited.

Robbie Baxter: Yeah, me, too. I’m really looking forward to diving into things. But before we go too far, can you share how you came to be a subscription practitioner and what was the journey that led you to running a subscription business?

Yael Dornbusch: So let me tell you a little bit about myself. I started my career in brand building and brand management across a variety of brands, mainly passion brands and love brands. Those are brands that people have an emotional connection with. It’s part of their identity. They want people to know that they’re aligned with that brand. So I worked in brand management for IAMS™ Dog Food, where we had pet lovers that really aligned themselves with. And they wanted to be part of that community. The community was a big factor, too.

I also worked in 5 luxury fragrances, so I managed Dolce and Gabbana and Gucci. Brands that people loved, wanted to talk to, and wanted to identify themselves with

Then came back to Zumba, and I remember going to trade shows where people would be like, “You work for Zumba?”, and they would hug me, because to them it was a brand that made them happy, made them explore and improve their wellness journey.. So I was working for Zumba, established the marketing department, and I was working on a variety of marketing a lot, a variety of our consumer products, also our subscription product, and our apparel product at this time.

And I had the opportunity to move up and lead the biggest revenue line for the business, which was our subscription product, our Zumba Instructor Network, which is a membership where we invite our instructors to get their music, their choreography, their whole business suite to become successful at what they do. So I moved on to lead the business side, as well as the marketing side. And really, the value equation for our subscription business. It ended up just being something I love because it was the perfect unison of brands, brand-building love, and a business model that showcased our passion through membership and recurring revenue.

Zumba became more than a workout. It’s a perfect blend of brand-building, community love, and a membership model that turns joy into lasting impact.

Robbie Baxter: A lot of great brands use subscription models, or subscription models often require really strong brands because of the duration. Your model is a little bit different than a lot of other subscription businesses that we’ve had on the show. Can you explain sort of how Zumba works and what your business model is? You talked about subscription being the biggest part of the business? What are the other components, and how do the pieces fit together?

Yael Dornbusch: At the core of the Zumba business model, we train licensed instructors to teach Zumba classes. And then we offer the Zumba Instructor Member, the Zumba Instructor Network Membership, where we give them the business suite to be successful in what they do. So we know that they need music for their classes, choreography for their classes, teaching skills, and continuing education opportunities. So we bring them in. We train them. We offer them the subscription to remain successful, and then it really becomes their own business.

They can teach anywhere, they can charge as much and however they want, and they monetize the consumers, right? It’s their students.

So it’s really a we call them prosumers, the core of our members. I think we were doing the gig economy before the gig economy. So anyone who loves dancing, loves fitness, and wellness, Zumba was their ability to create their own business, and then we also have an apparel line, which the majority of sales are also part of our instructors, but also to their students and their fans.

And then, finally, about a year and a half ago, we launched an at-home app subscription where people can take at-home Zumba classes, and it is also another tool that allows our instructors to have visibility with the new consumers to find their classes. So that’s kind of at the core of the wheel of the Zumba business.

Robbie Baxter: Can you explain what you mean by prosumer?

Yael Dornbusch: I would say, prosumers are an average person, an average consumer. They’re not looking for a full-time career. They may be looking for a full-time career, but it’s most of them are really looking for a part-time way to make additional income to showcase their passion. But what we provide is a financial benefit for them to explore that passion. We are B2C, but we offer more of a professional membership. It’s prosumer, not necessarily a B2B offering.

Zumba App Subscription

 

Robbie Baxter: Okay, I love that word. I did a fair amount of work way back for a company that’s part of Intuit pay cycle, and that was for very small businesses, and it was the accounting services for that. And I think we use that term, too. It was slightly different meaning, but the same idea that when you’re selling to somebody who’s sort of straddling the buying on my own account and buying for work, there are some different dynamics. And I’m curious why you focused on instructors as your primary subscribers rather than the students, and also why you went with a subscription rather than some of the other models that I think are very popular, like a license or a franchise.

Yael Dornbusch: Yeah, so we’ll go back a little bit in history to answer that. So Zumba started with Beto Perez. He’s the creator of Zumba. He was teaching Zumba classes and started in Miami, teaching them very successfully. And then in the creation of the business, we created a direct response business. So with an infomercial selling VHS originally, then DVDs for an at-home conception that drove huge brand awareness. And all of a sudden, we started getting calls from people. Let’s call them prosumers. These are aspirational people wanting to have their own financial journey. And they wanted to start teaching the classes themselves. So we hosted two at that time, we called certifications, where we would train them. You could become an instructor and get the certification to teach your own Zumba book classes. Then all of a sudden, we started getting emails and calls.

A big part of Zumba is the Latin music, and Latin music was booming at the time, or had started booming at the time, but they didn’t know where to find what’s the right song. What’s the right choreography? How do I keep it simple? How do I follow the Zumba formula? What are the best cueing techniques? Because in Zumba, you don’t cue verbally, you cue with motion. So by listening to our consumer, we realized that there was a need not just for a certification, like other fitness companies do, but really for ongoing support. So that’s where we kind of listen to our consumer, we saw that. Yes, we train them, we do license them because they get the license to teach at that point, but only for a limited time to remain licensed and to really be successful in what they do, and make it easy for them to teach, then they need the membership or the subscription together. So it was kind of how the chips landed, how we saw the insight, and we were able to structure it that way, which is not the way most fitness certifications work.

Robbie Baxter: Yeah. So you followed the demand. It’s a different kind of approach. We had CrossFit’s Eric Roza on the podcast a couple of years ago. Now the owner of CrossFit talking about their model, which is the membership is really focused on the end user. The people coming to the boxes for their workout. So it’s interesting to think about that and whose problem you are solving.

We talk a lot about this idea of a forever promise. What’s the ongoing challenge that you’re trying to help people with? What opportunity are you helping them to achieve, what problem you’re helping them to solve, and in your case, you have doubled, but the emphasis is on the instructor.

Yael Dornbusch: I think that’s been kind of the push and pull in our business. For our instructors, our mission is to make our instructors successful. And for that mission to pay off, we do need to drive brand awareness and drive students to their classes. That’s why they want to align themselves with our brand and our membership. But at the same time, we don’t monetize those consumers, right? So it’s our investment to drive brand awareness, brand awareness, brand trial, to the benefit of our instructors, so that they can have great class attendance, whereby we know in that way we can attain more instructors and an ongoing membership business.

Robbie Baxter: You kind of talk about the importance of both parts, even if you only have one subscription. You need both parts to thrive. That’s the goal. And you have to provide that air cover for your member instructors. You’ve also recently begun offering a subscription app for home workouts.

Can you walk me back to when you made that decision? And what are some of the considerations about balancing the needs of the instructors that you know very well, and you’ve been serving for a long time, and then the consumers? And also about the revenue that comes from an individual instructor, which is, by nature, going to be much greater than for any customer or student.

Take me back, and maybe walk me through this decision as it came up, and then, and then what you decided to do, and what were some of the things that you were considering as you made this important decision?

Yael Dornbusch: This has been in conversation for years, and for many years, we thought it would pull away from our instructor success. And that’s why we really shied away from it. If we had our own at-home product, would we be competing with our instructors, where our mission and our forever promise to them had been: We’re going to make you successful. Fast forward to post-COVID, when more people were working out at home, we also had consumer research that told us that the brand awareness for Zumba is really high, and more and more people know the Zumba name, but we were seeing that fewer people really understood what Zumba is, the fitness landscape had become more populated, more competitive. So we needed a way to break through and be relevant. Make sure that people didn’t just know the Zumba name, the Zumba brand, but also understood what it was. What was it for them?

And also, the last insight that kind of drove us there is that we also saw that the biggest trial barrier was intimidation. The feeling is like, “Okay, maybe I’m not a dancer. I don’t think that’s for me.” When really the Zumba class is come, move, be yourself. It’s not about doing the perfect dance. You’re going to get a workout, and you’re going to have fun, and you’re going to find yourself, so how could we better convey that in a controlled way?

After a lot of back and forth, we saw the potential of an at-home app to help us in a variety of ways. Most importantly, at the core was a variety of ways that could still be beneficial to our instructor business, to our instructor forever promise, and membership, while growing the Zumba brand.

So what the app enabled us to do was, first, bring in distribution. Now you have one more place at home, you tend to work out at home, you can find a Zumba subscription, and do your own Zumba classes in a way that we control that experience. So we know that that 1st experience, that 1st trial, could be great at home, and you wouldn’t have the intimidation factor.

All of our content on the Zumba app has a call to action to find a local class, a live class, because at the end of the day, it’s designed to be a funnel into our instructors’ classes. We know that there’s nothing you can love about working out at home. But there’s nothing like an in-person Zumba class. So this would be a feeder or a funnel to get them there.

The app has two sides. The at-home subscription, but by having to find a class mentioned in the at-home workouts, we also have a local class locator, so it gave us a better way for instructors or for consumers to discover not just Zumble but a class, and where to find their local one after that. So that was kind of the second strategy that we aimed to achieve there.

I said before that we didn’t have a direct relationship with the consumer, so by having this at-home app, we finally could see for ourselves, not just through our instructors. What music were they playing? What type of content did they prefer? How often did they engage so that we can continue catering our Zumba product or Zumba class? But also the benefits and the bundles that we give to our instructors, so they can be successful with their own consumers.

Robbie Baxter: When did you make this decision?

Yael Dornbusch: We launched a year and a half ago, probably in 2021.

Robbie Baxter: Okay. So it took a little while to make the decision.

Yael Dornbusch: Many years.

Robbie Baxter: Why did it take so long?

Yael Dornbusch: It was the decision of how do we make sure that we’re not competing with our own instructors, that we’re not competing with our own business, right?

A great example is Uber. It has its Uber drivers, right? Imagine that Uber now had Uber corporate drivers. Uber drivers might think, “Well, if Uber has their own Uber driver that’s not 3rd party, why do I need to book an Uber instructor? Why are they going to feed me the rights if they can take them themselves? So we really had to design the at-home app in a way that delivered enough value to a student at home, so that they would subscribe and discover, but also delivered enough value and limited the competition with our Zumba instructors and with our Zumba Instructor Network benefits.

Robbie Baxter: You’re not the only one who’s had these issues. I see so many subscription businesses. Your example of Uber is a good one. There are a lot of franchises where there are franchise-owned stores and corporate-owned stores, often even in the same region. There are good reasons for this. It’s good learning and training and all of that. But there’s always a feeling of, are you going to cherry-pick the best customers or the best locations?

There’s often an issue of the middleman, the retailer, the wholesaler, the dealership. Until the last 10 or 15 years, most content creators, the broadcast networks, and the like, and the studios didn’t know who was actually watching their stuff, because that information was owned by the cable company and the movie theaters. And by offering direct streaming, they were bypassing their most valuable distributors.

I asked you, Why did it take so long? Not because I thought you took an inordinately long amount of time, but because these are the hard decisions that you have to make when you’re doing a subscription.

Yael Dornbusch: It’s about really knowing the audiences and what they want and what they value, like thinking about also the dynamics of your competitors and at-home subscription content like Netflix and Spotify. Ranging between 9$ to $20, and most of at least for at-home fitness. That was the comparison, and then the amount of content that we thought they would expect would be really high. So here we have our Zumba Instructor Network, where our instructor members get choreography and music for a class every month. But you have the at-home consumer who, based on their experience with other at-home brands, would expect so much more content at a much lower price. How do you get that value equation and that trade-off to make sense from a business standpoint? Those were the risks and the hard conversations that we needed to have to figure out what was the right way to leverage the at-home market, create the right subscription model, and create the right feeder system for our instructors with this tool of an app, but in the right way, where it didn’t cannibalize the rest of our business.

It's about really knowing the audiences and what they want and what they value. Share on X

Robbie Baxter: Were you able to test some of these ideas before you rolled them out? Or how did your technology work?

Was it easy to test and experiment? Or did you have to kind of go all in when you were ready?

Yael Dornbusch: I think we said some really important principles and non-negotiables. Before technology, I would say the most important thing was really understanding what each subscriber wanted and needed, and what the non-negotiables were.

So, for instance, for our instructors, we know that what they value the most is their monthly music and choreography, and when we were working to figure out what would be the right content for the Zumba app, there were a lot of conversations around not just giving them the at-home workout. But people love Zumba music. Why don’t we give them the music to create their own playlists? And we had to do a lot of consumer research to know and stand by. But we know that our instructors are going to see a threat behind their students, having the music, having the ability to create their own playlists. So why would anyone need to become an instructor if you can get the same content and the same music that an instructor could? So it was really about understanding those non-negotiables.

Now that we see that. So we had to test it, right? Start with a limited amount of content, start with a limited amount of videos, maybe some beginner videos, some rhythm videos, and really start seeing.

Do you need a weekly drop? How are they engaging with the content? So I would say the best advice is, start from an MVP that is rooted in. You know the true needs of both audiences, protecting those nonnegotiables for your original audience, and then slowly test and learn.

Pricing was another one. Right? We don’t have a lot of pricing flexibility with our instructor network. A lot of that is because they’re a very tight, knit community. They talk and engage. Why would you charge this country more than that other country? Or why would you charge me differently from someone who became an instructor a month ago? So that’s been something we know and we protect for the instructor community with consumers. We saw, “Okay, we think this is a reasonable price point. But we could segment our testing and our acquisition strategy to better optimize for that.”

Robbie Baxter: I like what you said, and I want to bring that out of you. You started by protecting your existing audience. And so maybe there’s a risk that the initial launch of the new offering wouldn’t be compelling enough because of limited music and limited features, and lots of marketing of your in-person classes, and maybe people don’t like that, but it seems like it’s worked. In the last 18 months since you launched, what are some of the things you’ve learned, or what has evolved since you launched?

The best advice is, start from an MVP that is rooted in. Share on X

Yael Dornbusch: We’ve learned a lot. I’ll mention a few. We’ve achieved over a million downloads. We’ve increased our membership size by around 50%. So from a business standpoint, it’s delivering on what we think and what we expect. But we’ve also learned a lot, like I was saying, about content about pricing. We’ve also learned that there are different consumers, and they expect very different things. So our at-home consumers we’ve learned are looking are require a bigger level of journeys and personalization because they’re seeking very different things than our instructor network. Let me explain that a little bit. So for our instructor network, we understand that when they come into Zumba, they’re looking for 3 things, mainly income, recognition and belonging. And through the years and our research, we’ve understood at the core that everyone in the Zumba Instructor Network is looking for income, recognition, and belonging. Now, that doesn’t mean that there aren’t segments, and that there’s segmentation. Some are looking for belonging. They want to be part of the brand, but there is always a level of income and recognition, etc. So a lot of our brand positioning, forever promise, or journeys. And our personalization is catered to that.

Now, as we look at what we’ve learned from our at-home consumers or our app consumers, we see that they’re coming with very different needs, and they require very different acquisition strategies, funnels, and journeys to make sure that we can retain them. So we see the 3 needs being mind, body, and soul. So you have those that come with the body, right? And that’s in fitness, that will always be the best performing acquisition strategy. Weight loss to achieving your wellness goal. It may not be your best retention strategy, because you need to deliver on that from a product standpoint, so we need the product. What is the journey? What are the videos to make sure that once they come with the body expectations, how do we get them? How do we retain them? Then so are those who just love fun and dance. So, what is the right content? What are the right messages for them versus those that come to mind? They’re looking to build their own confidence.

So we’ve learned that it requires a lot more personalization, a lot more different offerings than we had expected, which goes to the value equation and the resources that we can dedicate to the product.

Robbie Baxter: For the prosumer, those 3 sources of value, income, recognition, and belonging. They all want all of them, for the most part.

Yael Dornbusch: In different levels.

Robbie Baxter: In different levels, but on the consumer side, they might come in for one and care a lot less about the other 2.

Yael Dornbusch: I think they’re looking more for either an emotional need or a physical need.

It’s about how we deliver on that.

Robbie Baxter: On the consumer side. It’s in a lot of ways. It’s as you said, it’s an acquisition, a strategy, and an onboarding strategy. Removing barriers around, not being sure what this is, not being confident, not being sure it’s for them.

Are there other onboarding activities that the new subscription accomplishes? What is the onboarding process whereby you know that somebody’s going to stay? So a lot of times, someone comes in the door, and you, as the person running the marketing, and running the subscription, you could say, “I would bet money that this person is going to get a lot of value here, and they’re going to stay because of these behaviors or these attributes that they share with other successful either proconsumers.”

Then other people come in and you might say, “Huh! I wonder why that person’s here, and I’m not that confident that they’re going to stay. I’m not sure that they’re coming with the right expectation. I’m not sure that we can deliver what they’re hoping for. Their budget might be different.”

How do you onboard people to maximize the likelihood of them staying?

Yael Dornbusch: For the app itself, like a lot of apps, it’s a thorough signup process.

When they come in, it has been shown to not only help in acquisition but also in retention. So when you sign up to the app, understanding what music do you like? What level do you consider yourself? Are you more experienced? Do you prefer dancing? Are you looking for more fitness moves? Understanding the consumer through the signup flow, which in our case has performed well for the app. And then making sure that once they complete that signup, the content that we recommend, the emails that we send, and the instructors that we provide to them are meeting those needs is important. So, for instance, we are seeing that a lot of the consumers coming into the app are beginners. They’re really coming from couch to class. They haven’t worked out before. They’re not even like in tune with dancing. Making sure that now we have a great beginner’s product, a beginner’s journey that makes them lose the intimidation, but understand and make sure that that 1st class is doable, that you feel you will accomplish, and then gamifying that with recognition and with rewards, it has worked well from an onboarding standpoint for the app consumers.

From an instructor’s standpoint, we have a few more touchpoints and they’re a little different, right? We have the training itself where they interact with one of our Zumba education specialists, who are the trainers, and through that, we learn about them. But we can also get feedback at the training from our Zumba education specialists after the training with a survey that we do. And then, based on their dashboard, we ask them questions.

And we can start testing. Okay, this person came in. What were they looking for? Do they not come from a fitness background? They need more tools that are going to help them be successful. Let’s give them more teaching tools and test into what the engagement tools and content that we need for them are? It really worked well on that side as well.

Robbie Baxter: How do you balance the different needs between the consumer and the prosumer? Do you have guidelines around how much do you invest in each side in terms of product roadmap, marketing efforts or support resources? How do you balance the needs of these 2 related but different groups?

Yael Dornbusch: From a business standpoint. We have dedicated teams for both groups, depending on the scale of the business right now. And then to balance the businesses, is for us to have some set principles so that we’re protecting the business yet ensuring their success. So, as I said before, like knowing there are audiences making sure we have the right data, the right measurement, and protecting those non-negotiables. And not just focusing on those paid subscribers, but we came into this knowing that this was going to be a funnel to get them into our instructors’ classes, so making sure that we are measuring their whole experience. The whole funnel. And what’s working, what’s not to optimize is an ongoing conversation. We don’t have the resources set, as we learn, and we optimize that. Continuing to test as well, what is the best way to integrate our instructor business into the at-home app? And how do we make that a win-win? So it’s kind of an ongoing conversation and based on the business results and the ongoing learnings that we have from each audience.

Robbie Baxter: What advice do you have for other businesses that have multiple channels for their subscriptions, particularly around ownership of the end customer?

Yael Dornbusch: They’re similar to what I said before, but definitely know your consumer and know their segments. What are they looking for? What do they value? What would be your forever promise so that you can deliver, not just acquire them, but deliver on that benefit? Make sure that you can retain them. So it comes down to really listening to them, understanding them, and continuing to do that because that morphs as time goes on.

The second thing I would say is, don’t underestimate the value of your journeys, make sure that you are talking to them after that signup, onboarding them correctly, and helping them navigate your bundle, the ongoing benefits that it provides, the ongoing content that it provides, or whatever it is, in a way that’s catered to that audience.

And lastly, I think this is really just based on our experiences. Don’t be afraid, like this was a very big risk for us, and with the right strategies, with the right time, with the right ability to test and scale. Fine-tuning the right dial for each has helped us really achieve a win-win proposition for another distribution channel and another way for us to have students find Zumba while driving them into our core instructor business to their classes, and into that side of the business.

Robbie Baxter: This is so interesting. I could go on for a long time, but I’m mindful of the time.

Do you have time for a speed round?

Yael Dornbusch: Let’s do it.

Robbie Baxter: Okay. 1st subscription you ever had.

Yael Dornbusch: Netflix.

Robbie Baxter: Your favorite subscription outside of Zumba right now?

Yael Dornbusch: I’m going to say it’s my gym membership.

Robbie Baxter: You’re very fit. Your favorite dog breed back in your time at IAMS™?

Yael Dornbusch: I just got my 1st dog, perfect timing. He’s been with us for a week. He’s a mini Bernadoodle.

Robbie Baxter: Oh, cute! Favorite song for a dance break?

Yael Dornbusch: It’s Gasolina by Daddy Yankee, it always always ramps anything up.

Robbie Baxter: Love it. Yael Dornbusch, thank you so much for being a guest on subscription stories.

Yael Dornbusch: Robbie, thank you so much for having me. I’ll see you around.

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That was Yael Dornbusch, Zumba’s Chief Subscription Officer. For more about Zumba, go to zumba.com. And for more about Subscription Stories as well as the transcript of my conversation with Yael, go to RobbieKellmanBaxter.com/podcast.

Also, I have a favor to ask, if you like what you heard, please take a minute to go over to Apple Podcasts or Apple iTunes and leave a review. Mention Yael in this episode if you especially enjoyed it. Reviews are how listeners find our podcast, and we appreciate each one.

Thanks for your support, and thanks for listening to Subscription Stories.

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About Yael Dornbusch

Yael Dornbusch is the Chief Subscription Officer at Zumba Fitness, where she leads the global strategy, marketing, and execution for the subscription-based business unit—the largest at Zumba. Her work spans revenue growth, customer acquisition, lifecycle marketing, and retention, with a focus on building high-performing, customer-centric subscription models that drive long-term value and engagement.

With nearly 20 years of experience, Yael is known for her ability to scale subscription businesses by combining brand storytelling with data-driven decision-making and operational excellence.

Before taking on her current role, Yael held various marketing leadership positions at Zumba, having first joined the company as its very first employee in 2003. She left to pursue her MBA at Columbia Business School and later held brand management roles at Procter & Gamble, where she worked on premium affinity brands including Dolce & Gabbana, Gucci, Escada fragrances, and Iams Pet Food.

Throughout her career, Yael has consistently focused on growing passionate communities through strong brand identity and compelling value propositions that drive financial success—an approach that has been central to her impact in the subscription space.

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